I've recently heard a lot of discourse with beatmakers and the use of loops when it comes to creating. There are many ways to create, but the question becomes, where does the creation begin and end; as it pertains to using loops created by another artist? Whole sites like Splice, HipHopDrumSamples, etc. are built from the notion of buying loops or sounds and creating beats from them. Do we discredit people for not being as musically inclined as the loop creators? Do we stop calling these people producers?
Personally, in the last few years I've taken a liking to sample packs because I can find sounds that I'm not able to create by myself. I can take a potpourri of sounds from very different packs and create a new composition. It shortens my time and allows me to get beats out faster. I also have enough confidence to use a sample pack and know that re-creating my exact composition would be very difficult for someone else. Am I not a creator for my use of these tools?
Then there is the question of what makes a producer. We know for a fact the biggest producers in Hip-hop (Dr. Dre, Diddy, Ye etc.) do not play all of their own compositions, they bring in artists that can, and arrange according to the sound they want created. Does that discredit them? Or do we have to put a new title on their method? My favorite guys are people like DJ Premier, 9th Wonder and Pete Rock who are mavens at chopping, but you don't get the same sort of sound as the formerly mentioned producers.
So let's discuss these questions. I'm not looking for a definite end to the conversation, just insight from a variety of beatmakers and producers.
As long as a producer is being creative there shouldn't be a issue but some value instrumentation played over sampling whereas the sampler doesn't get the credit when actually pretty much everything is a recreated sample anyway's when played on a midi keyboard controlling computerized sound recording of actual instruments, how many producers are playing real instruments just a question ... be it off topic.
I use sample packs and loops all the time. They have helped me create multiple projects in a short amount of time. Certain loops I run across sometimes will spark a whole entire theme for a beat tape. For example my last beat tape I did was a pop theme based inspired off one sample pack from splice. It's like digital crate digging for me. I go thru diffent styles and generes that may get looked over for the popular sound. As long as they are not copywritten it's ok to create with them.
Now when it's comes to copyright that's when using loops or samples can get you in a bit of trouble. If you are using samples or loops that are copywritten then it's your responsibilty to credit the original songwriter/copyright owner. Some go as far as selling it as if it 's their own copywritten material without credting the original owner. Some of the biggest producers and artist have been sued because of not crediting the orignal copyright owner. Copyright laws are serious business.
Ide say if you use the odd loop thats cool but if more than half the composition is done by loops, to me thats a bit of cheating. Now I will use a vocal chop or a vocal vst where you can choose the note, it would be hard to hire a real vocalist . Scott Storch creates his own unlike timbo who hires others but well hes got cash. Speaking os Scott he makes loops for splice so if he has an insane piano going and strings and a producer uses it in the tournament, once again that to me is like cheating, not all of us can play like a mo fo. Perhaps tournaments should have a higher level of standards. One shots lil fx mini riffs, sure throw them in but many will use loop packs and add drums.
I'm kind of leaning towards Bos. We as producers should learn music theory and at least learn how to play melodies. I personally love coming up with the perfect melody after trying to come up with one for more than 2hrs. Example not hating or putting him down the battle I'm in right now with Beasley. All he did was refurbished an old classic and made it 2022ish. I could've done the same. No original creativity or him playing with the beat. While I created something original. My mix doesn't sound as good as his because I put my time more on creativity versus mixing and mastering. From the sounds of it he did the opposite. Again not hating I think the beat is dope but is not a battle beat or even original at all. To me that's taking the easy way out, because people are going to hear the mix and how it hits, versus the creativity and originality. Just using my situation as an example . Again not hating or ranting of any kind. At the end of the day he is a very talented producer and dope engineer.
I've been in battles where my mix was impecable versus my opponent and lost because I took the easy way out by picking loops and drumloops instead of being original and come up with something fresh.
I respect every type of producer whether you are sample based or musically inclined. What I don't credit is those that have been doing this less time than me and just loop it. It's just whack. And there are plenty of those coming up.
Are all producers musicians? No. Are some producers musicians? Yes. Old school hip hop producers sampled. Not just sampled small breaks, and repositioned them in a way where it sounds like something new. Yes there were times when a producer would sample a classic song, and keep 90% of it the way of the original, only adding in a more modern drum track, and some effects. Some producers composed everything from scratch. Some producers hired session musicians to play things they wanted to hear. So... if you paste loops together in unique ways, are you a producer? Yes. Are you a musician? Definitely not. Are you a producer if you paste loops from a construction kit, just recreating someone else's beat? No. That is their beat, and you have done nothing at all to make it yours. Are you a producer if you use some chord loops, and drum loops, then add your own top melody, and your own extra sounds to fill the beat up in a unique way? Yes, because you did things to make it yours. Are you going to get respect on this site which is full of producers who compose all their beats from scratch because they are also musicians? No.
Some say, learn music theory. Ok, so imagine you know your theory, but can't do intricate piano riffs, hammering techniques, and other cool tricks that professional, or trained piano players do? I say, why not find a loop of something that was played by a musician who can do those things, or hire one on fiverr. Or better yet, use EZ keys VST.
I will say this, you should do enough to a loop if you use a premade loop, to ensure the beat won't get a beat customer / artist a copywrite strike on Youtube, or anywhere else. Otherwise you have damaged your brand, and will not have repeat business. My 2 cents FWIW.
Okay here my 2 cent my main go to is vinyl recording but I will use on Occasion many different methods to chop and sample be it a sample pack raw sampled instrument from my kontact library along with anything that has a sound to forge a foundation for my production.
Whether you know music theory or are classically trained if you are created a new composition from sampled material you are producing, you are not when you take the whole demonstration from a sample pack which some producers do ( this is not a shot at anybody).
It is difficult to be a producer in general a lot a skill is involved whether you chop sample or actually play, just having a ear for sounds is a skill in itself and playing instruments and combining them with samples creating break downs and bridge using a bar or even half a bar is a talent in itself.
I credit everyone who has a passion to want to create and no matter how you finish your composition when using loops or samples or sample packs it should be your own vision not just a rip where you copy the structure of the work without adding anything of significant value that will actually show that you put your stamp on it.
I Hope I didn't get of topic rambling too much .... Throoow
Why this post is interesting is because people are using sample pack compositions in key battles.You can tell because the quality of battles fell because Fats banned it....I feel like its cheating using the whole composition or using the demo of the sample pack instead of elements or pieces to make your own production....just like records theres looping and chopping....when u loop sample packs your actually co producing because records require more work because the elements were not designed to be copied....bands played unquantized and it takes skill to actually loop compositions into hiphop tracks.Best way I can explain this....we all used them ....I try not to depend on them though and I try not to loop them straight up....
Loops, I used loops differently throu out the years. When I was learning I would use the whole loop without changing anything, MC Hammer and Rick James style. What I would do that was unique was that once I finished my beat I would remove the sample and now I had a true composition. That thought me how play keys at a decent level for production. As I grew I began to make my own loops and chop them up and since I created them i can leave them without a copyright issue. Be creative don't just copy...
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9I've recently heard a lot of discourse with beatmakers and the use of loops when it comes to creating. There are many ways to create, but the question becomes, where does the creation begin and end; as it pertains to using loops created by another artist? Whole sites like Splice, HipHopDrumSamples, etc. are built from the notion of buying loops or sounds and creating beats from them. Do we discredit people for not being as musically inclined as the loop creators? Do we stop calling these people producers?
Personally, in the last few years I've taken a liking to sample packs because I can find sounds that I'm not able to create by myself. I can take a potpourri of sounds from very different packs and create a new composition. It shortens my time and allows me to get beats out faster. I also have enough confidence to use a sample pack and know that re-creating my exact composition would be very difficult for someone else. Am I not a creator for my use of these tools?
Then there is the question of what makes a producer. We know for a fact the biggest producers in Hip-hop (Dr. Dre, Diddy, Ye etc.) do not play all of their own compositions, they bring in artists that can, and arrange according to the sound they want created. Does that discredit them? Or do we have to put a new title on their method? My favorite guys are people like DJ Premier, 9th Wonder and Pete Rock who are mavens at chopping, but you don't get the same sort of sound as the formerly mentioned producers.
So let's discuss these questions. I'm not looking for a definite end to the conversation, just insight from a variety of beatmakers and producers.
As long as a producer is being creative there shouldn't be a issue but some value instrumentation played over sampling whereas the sampler doesn't get the credit when actually pretty much everything is a recreated sample anyway's when played on a midi keyboard controlling computerized sound recording of actual instruments, how many producers are playing real instruments just a question ... be it off topic.
I use sample packs and loops all the time. They have helped me create multiple projects in a short amount of time. Certain loops I run across sometimes will spark a whole entire theme for a beat tape. For example my last beat tape I did was a pop theme based inspired off one sample pack from splice. It's like digital crate digging for me. I go thru diffent styles and generes that may get looked over for the popular sound. As long as they are not copywritten it's ok to create with them.
Now when it's comes to copyright that's when using loops or samples can get you in a bit of trouble. If you are using samples or loops that are copywritten then it's your responsibilty to credit the original songwriter/copyright owner. Some go as far as selling it as if it 's their own copywritten material without credting the original owner. Some of the biggest producers and artist have been sued because of not crediting the orignal copyright owner. Copyright laws are serious business.
Ide say if you use the odd loop thats cool but if more than half the composition is done by loops, to me thats a bit of cheating. Now I will use a vocal chop or a vocal vst where you can choose the note, it would be hard to hire a real vocalist . Scott Storch creates his own unlike timbo who hires others but well hes got cash. Speaking os Scott he makes loops for splice so if he has an insane piano going and strings and a producer uses it in the tournament, once again that to me is like cheating, not all of us can play like a mo fo. Perhaps tournaments should have a higher level of standards. One shots lil fx mini riffs, sure throw them in but many will use loop packs and add drums.
I'm kind of leaning towards Bos. We as producers should learn music theory and at least learn how to play melodies. I personally love coming up with the perfect melody after trying to come up with one for more than 2hrs. Example not hating or putting him down the battle I'm in right now with Beasley. All he did was refurbished an old classic and made it 2022ish. I could've done the same. No original creativity or him playing with the beat. While I created something original. My mix doesn't sound as good as his because I put my time more on creativity versus mixing and mastering. From the sounds of it he did the opposite. Again not hating I think the beat is dope but is not a battle beat or even original at all. To me that's taking the easy way out, because people are going to hear the mix and how it hits, versus the creativity and originality. Just using my situation as an example . Again not hating or ranting of any kind. At the end of the day he is a very talented producer and dope engineer.
I've been in battles where my mix was impecable versus my opponent and lost because I took the easy way out by picking loops and drumloops instead of being original and come up with something fresh.
I respect every type of producer whether you are sample based or musically inclined. What I don't credit is those that have been doing this less time than me and just loop it. It's just whack. And there are plenty of those coming up.
Are all producers musicians? No. Are some producers musicians? Yes. Old school hip hop producers sampled. Not just sampled small breaks, and repositioned them in a way where it sounds like something new. Yes there were times when a producer would sample a classic song, and keep 90% of it the way of the original, only adding in a more modern drum track, and some effects. Some producers composed everything from scratch. Some producers hired session musicians to play things they wanted to hear. So... if you paste loops together in unique ways, are you a producer? Yes. Are you a musician? Definitely not. Are you a producer if you paste loops from a construction kit, just recreating someone else's beat? No. That is their beat, and you have done nothing at all to make it yours. Are you a producer if you use some chord loops, and drum loops, then add your own top melody, and your own extra sounds to fill the beat up in a unique way? Yes, because you did things to make it yours. Are you going to get respect on this site which is full of producers who compose all their beats from scratch because they are also musicians? No.
Some say, learn music theory. Ok, so imagine you know your theory, but can't do intricate piano riffs, hammering techniques, and other cool tricks that professional, or trained piano players do? I say, why not find a loop of something that was played by a musician who can do those things, or hire one on fiverr. Or better yet, use EZ keys VST.
I will say this, you should do enough to a loop if you use a premade loop, to ensure the beat won't get a beat customer / artist a copywrite strike on Youtube, or anywhere else. Otherwise you have damaged your brand, and will not have repeat business. My 2 cents FWIW.
Okay here my 2 cent my main go to is vinyl recording but I will use on Occasion many different methods to chop and sample be it a sample pack raw sampled instrument from my kontact library along with anything that has a sound to forge a foundation for my production.
Whether you know music theory or are classically trained if you are created a new composition from sampled material you are producing, you are not when you take the whole demonstration from a sample pack which some producers do ( this is not a shot at anybody).
It is difficult to be a producer in general a lot a skill is involved whether you chop sample or actually play, just having a ear for sounds is a skill in itself and playing instruments and combining them with samples creating break downs and bridge using a bar or even half a bar is a talent in itself.
I credit everyone who has a passion to want to create and no matter how you finish your composition when using loops or samples or sample packs it should be your own vision not just a rip where you copy the structure of the work without adding anything of significant value that will actually show that you put your stamp on it.
I Hope I didn't get of topic rambling too much .... Throoow
Why this post is interesting is because people are using sample pack compositions in key battles.You can tell because the quality of battles fell because Fats banned it....I feel like its cheating using the whole composition or using the demo of the sample pack instead of elements or pieces to make your own production....just like records theres looping and chopping....when u loop sample packs your actually co producing because records require more work because the elements were not designed to be copied....bands played unquantized and it takes skill to actually loop compositions into hiphop tracks.Best way I can explain this....we all used them ....I try not to depend on them though and I try not to loop them straight up....
Loops, I used loops differently throu out the years. When I was learning I would use the whole loop without changing anything, MC Hammer and Rick James style. What I would do that was unique was that once I finished my beat I would remove the sample and now I had a true composition. That thought me how play keys at a decent level for production. As I grew I began to make my own loops and chop them up and since I created them i can leave them without a copyright issue. Be creative don't just copy...